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Talk:Strength Scale
=2007= Zeus How can Wonder Woman be stronger than Zeus king of the greek gods from which she gains her powers? -- Awar 21:59, 15 June 2007 (UTC). :The Marvel Comics version of Zeus is different from the DC version. Wonder Woman's powers don't come from the Marvel version of the Olympians because she's not a Marvel character. The Marvel version of Zeus is said to be able to lift about 90 tons without using his magical powers to supplement his strength. The stats taken for this article have been taken from the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe or are estimates that editors have added based on certain feats of strength they've seen various characters perform in various comics. The 90 ton level for Zeus is just a "base" level of strength, similar to the Hulk. For all anyone knows, Marvel's version of Zeus, when using his other powers to jack up his strength, can lift mountains or throw office buildings. Jack Hammer 23:46, 15 June 2007 (UTC) Missing Strength levels I was editing some of the strength chart on December 28,2007 and the top two levels of strength have been removed on both the Marvel and DC Database. Does anyone know what happened? 01:06, December 30, 2007‎ I'd also like to know what happened to Class 100 strength level. Wonder Man is said to be able to lift well in excess of 100 tons. How is it that there's no level for him? ferroboy 10:54, December 30, 2007‎ :I've restored the missing strength levels and they'll be cited soon. I have no clue as to what happened to them. I didn't even notice that they were gone until tonight. When I was about to start editing earlier, I noticed that they were still being while i was in the editing mode but they weren't after I'd saved. So, I went to an older edit and copied and pasted everything, then deleted the text and replaced it with what I'd copied. But, it's all fixed now. Jack Hammer 01:16, 31 December 2007 (UTC) Can you edit in ANT-MAN who seems left out. =2008= Strength sources When sighting the reference for the characters strength editng. I use the most recent source that I have. I normally stick with the handbooks since they are published by Marvel. I have a few commits about OHOTMU Vol.3 Master Edition. The strength chart from that series just placed everyone in a strength category. It did not actually state how much weight a particular character could press. It simple placed them in a certain range. Which does not mean that because they are for example in the Superhuman Class 25 range that they can press 25 tons. They may only be able to press 11 tons instead. I use the OHOTMU Vol. 2 and the 89 Update for an actually pound or ton figure because that series generally listed how much weight said name character could press. Then I cross reference that with one of the more updated Handbooks, which uses a power ratings strength chart from 1-7. If the most recent handbook entry just places the character in a strength category but dose not actually state how much weight he/she can lift. I check the vol. 2 for a more exact figure. If I don't fine one then I would simply state that the character can lift/press between whatever weight range that his category covers. If for instance a character had his strenght limit listed in a previous handbook entry. I generally stick with that figure so long as his new entry in a more current handbook does not actually place him in a different category. The best example I have for that is Doc Samson. His ability to press 70 tons. However his strength category in the OHOTMU Hulk 2004 gives him a category 5 Strength power rating:25-75 tons. Also I want place someone in the highest strength category just because he or she was shhown lifting something in that range in a comic. Many characters have been shown to lift more than what the handbook said at one time or another. I doubt that the artist that is drawing the comic at the time is really concerned about those facts. If the Marvel handbook places the character there that is all fine. But until then I will go off of the most recent handbook entry that I can fine. 10:53, January 1, 2008‎ :Yes, that's basically what's been done thus far. If a character's rating isn't accurate or if the strength stat is outdated, then it's changed. Also, if an exact level number for how much weight a character can lift isn't given, then placing the range in which they're listed is fine. It's really the only accurate way to do it for some of them. Also, using older versions of the OHOTMU is fine for most characters because it's been years since the vast majority of characters listed in the scale have had updated OHOTMU profiles that lists a change in his/her physical strength. A good example of this is Ikaris. He has a profile in the All-New OHOTMU A-Z update issues printed in 2007. He hasn't gained or lost any superhuman powers since his last OHOTMU profile and an exact number for his strength isn't provided in the newer profile. So, the 40 ton rating might be from an older profile, but it's still accurate.Jack Hammer 00:31, 2 January 2008 (UTC) Category Why not create a category for each strength class and insert it in the character pages? Then the lists make themselves. There could be a template for each level that you insert into the "Strength" section of a character entry, it displays some standard text related to that level, then autocategorizes the entry as being that strength level. Voila. Roygbiv666 20:52, 13 March 2008 (UTC) :I personally think the reason for the lack of auto-categorization of this field is due to the fact that Jack Hammer has done all this work himself, and seems to enjoy taking meticulous care with it. (At least, that's the reason I haven't messed with it, I wouldn't want to make anyone feel like their work was all for nothing, or anywhere close to that). --Your Friendly Neighborhood Peteparker (talk • • ) 00:07, 14 March 2008 (UTC) ::That, and it looks like it's already been done. D'oh! :::Roygbiv666 01:48, 14 March 2008 (UTC) ::::I think we should simply switch to the 1-7 scales Marvel uses in their books, on their trading cards and on their website. It seems to be what they want out there. PiranhaSister 04:38, 22 April 2008 (UTC) :::::Well, the older versions of the handbook gave a much more localized idea of a character's strength. Most profiles in the updated handbooks don't even state how much weight a character can lift, they just use the power grid and leave it at that. I've used the strength stat from older handbooks for most characters that even have profiles in the updated handbooks because, in most cases, their actual level of strength remains the same even if the rating system has changed. Doctor Doom was stated to lift up to 2 tons in his armor in the old ones, which was a "4" in the older handbooks. He's still at "4" in the updated ones, but nothing has ever been written stating that he's updated his armor to increase his physical strength. So, I just used the older ranking. For some older characters though, I've used the updated power grid, or at least I've listed the range of their strength, if something has happened to cause an increase or decrease in their strength. Sasquatch and Warpath both have older OHOTMU profiles, but events have occurred in the comics that've made both of them physically weaker than when the older profiles were written. Simply put, the newer strength stats aren't as detailed as the older ones were.Jack Hammer 15:36, 22 April 2008 (UTC) ::::::How often are the older ones different than the newer ones, in terms of actual numbers? ::::::--Nathan Elliott (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 17:51, 22 April 2008 (UTC) :::::::As things stand, the strength field is largely underused on every character's profile, so we should figure something out that will be easy to use for all editors. If they can just hop over to Marvel.com and look up the character's power grid, that'll be more accessible than going through the Official Handbook. Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing us put the entire power grid on the profile. :::::::PiranhaSister 03:20, 23 April 2008 (UTC) :With lots of profiles on the site, at least when it comes to characters with superhuman strength, most have their strength listed along with their other powers rather than listing it separately in the strength field. Makes sense really because I don't see a purpose of separating it or listing a character's strength twice. As for using the power grid on Marvel.com instead of just going through the handbook, it'd be alright if the power grid on Marvel.com were accurate. I'm on Wolverine's profile on Marvel.com right now and his strength is listed at "5". They've also got his speed listed at "4". So, going by that, he can potentially lift as much as 75 tons and can run faster than the speed of sound. As to differences between strength listings with the newer and older ratings, the problem is that there usually isn't an actual amount of weight given for most characters with OHOTMU profiles using the newer rating system. For instance, in a profile of the Thing in a Fantastic Four OHOTMU one-shot issue released a few years back, it lists the range of his strength but doesn't give a number. He's listed at "6", which is more than 75 tons up to 100 tons. In comparison with the older version, it clearly stated him being able to lift about 85 tons. Providing a range of strength, rather than an actual stat, is what they do with most of their characters. In a few, they'll list a number but it still won't make much sense. For instance, the character Ultra-Girl got her first profile in the 2006 OHOTMU and it states in her powers section that she can lift over 50 tons. Ok..but exactly how far over 50 tons? 55, 60, 70 tons maybe? Profiles using the newer ratings are filled with stuff like that.Jack Hammer 22:57, 23 April 2008 (UTC) ::If you think about it, the ranges might be more practical, representing what super strength would actually be like. Presumably, every character with super strength has superior muscle design or energy sources. If you or I were suddenly able to lift a hundred pounds more than we could yesterday, there would be a corresponding increase in muscle size. However, if 50-ton-lifting Ultra Girl's strength increased by a hundred pounds, no one would notice. For all her strength, she has regular sized arms. In terms of pure physics, even the Hulk, with all his big muscles, couldn't lift 100 tons like he's supposed to if those muscles had the same strength-to-mass ratio of a human. A super-strong character's strength would probably vacillate wildly given their personal exercise regime. If Ultra Girl worked out hard at a super gym for a month or two, she might go up by five or ten tons. Or if she sat on her ass eating cheetos for that long, it could go down by the same amount. Plus, the writers probably don't want to have an exact figure; they want to keep it vague so a character is only as strong as the story needs him or her to be. A 50-75 ton range of strength is likely as accurate as we're going to get for ultra girl. ::PiranhaSister 23:56, 31 May 2008 (UTC) =2009= jackhammer , your changes? green goblin's trength is 9 tons... he was always a bit weaker than spiderman , he has class 10 strength (2-10 tons) According to the latest handbook style profile on Norman Osborn, his strength is listed at 10 tons. The most recent information, if that information contradicts older stuff, is what should be used.Jack Hammer 00:08, 3 August 2009 (UTC) US agent has class 10 superhuman stength able to lift 10 tons? why was this removed It was removed because there wasn't a source. Randomly just adding characters to the page without some sort of verification is what originally had the page an unorganized mess roughly 2 years back.Jack Hammer 00:08, 3 August 2009 (UTC) thing: nmore than 75 but no more than 100 , thing was class 90 for ages able to lift 85 tons , this is common knowlege ,whatever his strength is it is 85 tons plus now due to traininig with the weights he's been given by reed, i have proof of him being implied he is class 100 (90 - 100 tons)... Common knowledge can change over time. That's why Marvel puts out new handbooks. I don't have all issues of every version of the handbooks, but I've been told by other editors before that the Thing's strength is k now in the 100 ton range due to intensive exercising. I dunno for sure because I haven't found anything that says that. However, it's possible that the old 85 ton number is no longer valid and since I haven't read anything lately that adds aany help, I figure that his strength is best left off in the undetermined section. After all, lately I havent' read anything that puts a firm number on how much he can lift.Jack Hammer 00:08, 3 August 2009 (UTC) why do you keep putting logan in unknown? yes we know he can lift the weight of a dozen men over his head, with one arm, and hurl them through a wooden wall , so can cap America... SM's lifted and thrown a tank, you don't need to parade his strength feats etc logan's latest official bio says breifly over 800lbs he should be in 800lbs- 2tons... you even know ehere to put him In the undetermined section, it already lets you know that he can lift more than 800 lbs. The problem is that no strict weight limit has ever been given, so the upper limit of his strength is a mystery. He can briefly lift over 8 00 lbs. Ok. How long is briefly though? 20 seconds? 60 secnds? two minutes? it doesn't say. In a recent issue of the Wolverine: First Class comic, he gets into a fight with Ursa Major. He breaks out of Major's grip after he's placed in a bear hug, then picks him up over his head and tosses him across a room. In bear form, Ursa Major is stated in every one of his profiles to weigh 955 lbs. He does it quite easily so 955 lbs doesn't seem to be anywhere near his maximum. Maybe it's a ton or 2 tons or even 3 or 4? Even though I personally don't think it exceeds the two ton level, I don't know that for a fact. At best, Wolverine's upper limit of physical strength is undetermined, hnce that's where he should be listed on this page.Jack Hammer 00:08, 3 August 2009 (UTC) Ankur: i am quite sure 'Wolverine first class' is not cannon , it is not in continuity with 616 mainstream earth , also nomran being able to lift 9 tons is refrenced in his new bio in goblin leagacy Yes, "Wolverine: First Class" is canon , and therefore part of the 616 continuity. The title is set chronologically earlier than all the current X-titles, roughly around the same time in which Kitty Pryde joined the X-Men. The events take place typically in between major X-Men storylines going on at the time. While the title itself is mostly filler, just another way for Marvel to make money off the Wolverine character and nothing of any major importance happens within it, it’s still part of mainstream Marvel continuity.Jack Hammer 22:22, 8 August 2009 (UTC) strength feats , scans references if you are going to reference some feats have a look a these forums, mnay users there have archived teh feats of several cahrecters hsocasseig thier high end showings etc http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t487846.html Personally the whole marvel strength level system is flawed there is no point in sayinng the She hulk can lift 75 tons when she is seen lifting the Thing heaviest weight with one hand The Thing supossed strength level is 85 to 100 tons Yet he is seen lifting weight much heavier. Like someone mentioned before there should be an individual scale depending on the characters physical strenth End of discussion ............ Actually, the She-Hulk is said to be able to lift over 100 tons now. But, at any rate, this is all based on Marvel's viewpoint. Just deciding on a different method to use when measuring a character's strength, or listing it rather, instead of using the one Marvel has just makes this a fan site, a glorified fan site at that. Jack Hammer 22:45, 27 August 2009 (UTC) Venom hey Eddie brock was Venom so venom can lift 10-25 tons remember and as Anti-Venom 25-75 along side gargan as Venom Gamma Venom 568 13:34, November 20, 2009‎ =2013= Odd stats I removed these from the bottom of the article because the context was not clear what they referred to: :strenght: 100 :talent: 75 :intelligence: 20 :speed: 65 :ressistanca: 100 :war: 80 Could someone specify here? +Y 20:49, May 10, 2013 (UTC) Reference contexts A major problem with the references used in this article to establish character's strength is that there is a lack of context as to how the person lifted what they lifted. Hulk supporting 150 billion tons in some kinda half squat half good morning static hold where it's not a free weight (since portions of the mountain had collapsed around the pocket, stabilizing it) is different than say, if Spider-Man were to lift a car overhead (a free weight) balanced in his hands. The mechanism of lifting changes the context. While a listing of absolute numbers is valuable, I think it would also be valuable to list characters in groupings on the basis of HOW things were lifted as well. We know full well there is a huge gap between the world record deadlift and the world record military press, we can acknowledge that here too. Feats like Thing holding together the snapped cables of the Golden Gate Bridge, for example, is also incredibly different than holding up a mountain. It could demonstrate Thing having superior GRIP strength than the Hulk, for example, since Hulk's fingers did not have grip the mountain to allow his shoulders to bear it. +Y 20:49, May 10, 2013 (UTC) Purpose of the page Purpose is written in the page to "put all the characters of the Marvel Universe in order" but now they are listed alphabetically in groups like Thousand, Over thousand, 1 ton, Between tons, 2 tons. We have seven official categories in Category:Strength to list characters alphabetically so I see these additional rankings only as invite to edit wars. --Mrkermit (talk) 22:18, July 21, 2014 (UTC) ANT MAN - does NOT appear in this list...